concerning the catholic church?
April 14, 2011 by refl
Filed under Church stained
It seems to me that every catholic church in my country is a splendid,expensive build packed full of stained glass windows,statues,candles,vases of flowers and so on.The Vatican is packed full of beautiful paintings worth a fortune…Yet when I went to a catholic school the catholic kids were obliged to bring in money for a charity and each house had to collect money each month for a charity and bring it in.A lot of the local kids came from poor backgrounds, most grew up in a council estate and quite a few had parents on the dole or whom were alcoholics and they too, were expected to bring in charity money when they could have done with the charity themselves and with keeping the spare change in their pocket.
This strikes me as hyprocritical, when the catholic church is so wealthy.
If the catholic church is the original church that oit claims it is, why doesnt the church live like the original christians who:
Acts 2
44All the believers were together and had everything in common.
45Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need.
And why hasnt the catholic church paid heed to:
James 5
1Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you.
2Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are motheaten.
3Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days.
Matthew 6
19″Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
And if Peter is the first pope as the church claims, how come the pope does not live like the apostles, who Jesus commanded them to:
Luke 12:33
Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will not be exhausted, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys.
Luke 10
Jesus Sends Out the Seventytwo
1After this the Lord appointed seventy-two[a] others and sent them two by two ahead of him to every town and place where he was about to go. 2He told them, “The harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few. Ask the Lord of the harvest, therefore, to send out workers into his harvest field. 3Go! I am sending you out like lambs among wolves. 4Do not take a purse or bag or sandals; and do not greet anyone on the road.
5″When you enter a house, first say, ‘Peace to this house.’ 6If a man of peace is there, your peace will rest on him; if not, it will return to you. 7Stay in that house, eating and drinking
Adorable Vixen I am not catholic!I never was!I just attended a catholic primary school.My country is 98% catholic and all national schools are listed as catholic.
adorable vixen, my church is based on the first christians in the NT.yours is not.those first christians were not catholic either. who are you to judge is christian or not?
Misty if the church sold all its precious belongings and donationed to the poor if would be as the original church did in acts 2:
44All the believers were together and had everything in common. 45Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need.
of course that would mean the church would not longer be rich, but the church could return to living like the original christians met up in member’s homes.
look at jesus and the apostles- they went from town to town living in people’s homes:
Luke 10
4Do not take a purse or bag or sandals; and do not greet anyone on the road.
5″When you enter a house, first say, ‘Peace to this house.’ 6If a man of peace is there, your peace will rest on him; if not, it will return to you. 7Stay in that house, eating and drinking whatever they give you, for the worker deserves his wages. Do not move around from house to house.
The church would still continue and the priests would lack nothing:
22Then Jesus said to his disciples: “Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat; or about your body, what you will wear. 23Life is more than food, and the body more than clothes. 24Consider the ravens: They do not sow or reap, they have no storeroom or barn; yet God feeds them. And how much more valuable you are than birds!
Luke 22:35
Then Jesus asked them, “When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?” “Nothing,” they answered.
My church does this and God always provides.If the catholic church is the first church, why isnt it living like the first christians?
that is how they stay wealthy
Grab a dictionary and look up these words:
1- catholic (lowercase c)
2- catholicity
Do these things sound like the true Christian church?
It isn’t so here in USA!
“Seeming” is not always the truth.
I’m glad that you see the Catholic church as being wrong and contrary to the Bible because it is. Catholics killed true Christians during the dark ages in “the name of Christ”. Here is Bible proof that the Catholic church is wrong:
1 Tim 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, AND DOCTRINES OF DEVILS;
1 Tim 4:2 SPEAKING LIES IN HYPOCRISY; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1 Tim 4:3 FORBIDDING TO MARRY, AND COMMANDING TO ABSTAIN FROM MEATS, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
Sound like the Catholic church? God knew the doctrines they were going to bring about years before it was in existence and he gave us these verses so we’d know the truth.
If you want to know true Christianity and the true doctrine read the Bible, in the new testament where Jesus starts His church. KJV 1611, the old version that was written before all the false doctrines sprang up.
The doctrines were there in 1611 of course but the Bible was before the Catholic Church, it was written in the times of the apostles, that is why the books of the new testament are named after some of the apostles. The Bible says “Holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.”. Our “English version” was printed in 1611.
And yes, it is Catholic to not eat meat on Fridays, that’s why all resturaunts serve fish on Friday’s.
paintings. that’s what the wealth of the Vatican consists of.
Rich in culture and history. Poor in actual money.
lost.eu/21618
Crash, no, that doesn’t sound like the Catholic church, since they don’t require people to be celibate (celibate priests is a discipline only in latin rite) and Jesus said it’s ok to fast.
and all those doctrines were there in 1611.
i think you are missing something out of anger.
many of the riches the Roman Catholic Church has are donated. many of the items from antiquity (like stained glass windows) were used to teach people about their faith back in the time when most people could not read. you were raised RCC – so how is it that you do not know these things.
the RCC is the most giving church body in the history of Christianity. they provide in quiet ways – for millions of people around the world. your donations from your childhood were not to scam money out of you, but were to give YOU the opportunity to be part of that outpouring of assistance to those who were less fortunate than you were.
i was not raised RCC – but i have had the honor of working with many priests, nuns, and RCC lay ministers and have seen the work they do.
if you want to get P.O.’d about people in Christianity making money on the backs of the poor, then go after the likes of Rod Parsley, Benny Hinn, and all of those who teach that it is okay to demand material wealth of God. those are the people doing harm to Christianity.
if it were not for the RCC, YOU WOULD NOT BE A CHRISTIAN. all Christians owe a debt of gratitude to the RCC for keeping Christianity alive as a religion.
obviously, you only want to find people who agree with your misinformed, highly critical view of the RCC. i find it rather sad that you have nothing more important to be questioning.
I’ve often wondered about this too. Some of the poorest people giving their last penny to an organization dripping with gold. Where’s the morality in that? Yet I know many Catholics and they don’t feel this way at all. In fact they feel honored to worship in grandness.
Religions wont save you, but your faith. so dont worry about what religion is the best and the worst,u should’nt judge them.
The Catholic Church is a “Religion”
Religion can be used for Good or Bad
Believing in Jesus Christ Risen from the Dead is
REALITY
Religion Operates in the “Mental Realm”
Reality Operates in the “Spiritual Realm”
See?
You are a “Spirit”
You have a “Soul”
You Live in a “Body”
Spiritual Realm
Mental Realm
Physical Realm
See?
The Spiritual Realm makes it Possible for the Physical Realm to “Exist”.
When you (a Spirit) comes out of your Body (Physical Realm)—-you will Exist a long time.
Dont’ do it WithOut Jesus Christ Risen From The Dead—o.k.???
Jesus is Lord
I think you are put too much attention on the cost of objects not what the objects represent to our church. Symbolism is important but to us it is not important as to the cost of it. When I go to church, I don’t see objects’ validity by the cost of it.
The paintings and such aren’t recent – many popes in the Renaissance were patrons of great painters like da Vinci, Raphael and Michaelangelo. If it weren’t for some of these popes, we wouldn’t have some of the great works from these geniuses that we do. Were they worldly? Yes. But we owe them a lot for preserving so much cultural antiquity.
Peace!
When Jesus returns it will hardly be to shake their hand’s and say good job will he ?…. It is as far from what jesus taught as can be for who in their right minds would pray to idols of stone or the many issues you yourself have become aware of ….. Jesus was not here the first time to aquire wealth or teach his followers how to make statues….. A wise person see’s the truth and follows a narrow path , while the rest are blinded by fools in robes with tall tales of a burning hell and floating souls …. His second coming will not be a pleasant surprise for most , but for a few he will be a welcome site indeed………….
you are not forced to give money to the church, now lets look at where your tax money goes, palatial buildings, flash cars,overpaid politicians, hand outs to lazy people who wont work and so on, now what would happen if you refused to donate your taxes to some of the things you dont like and that also includes museums where art is hanging
The Catholic Church has given more money to the needy, educated more children, fed more hungry, housed and clothed them than any church or government organization on the face of the earth. It would seem that if one would criticize anyone they would first look at their own contributions to the needy and give what they can to the most efficient organization ever created for helping others, the Catholic Church.
In Christ
Fr. Joseph
A,
Some people find it difficult to be obedient to the teaching of Christ and His Church. That is why we need His grace to follow Him. Many people living in the flesh desire a Church that serves them instead of one teaching us to serve God and sacrifice in our faith. God bless!
Thinking like the traitor Judas, you miss the whole point.
Charity is the most important thing, and everything you site is an exercise in charity.
St. Paul explains it here:
1Co 13:1 If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
1Co 13:2 And if I should have prophecy and should know all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I should have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
1Co 13:3 And if I should distribute all my goods to feed the poor, and if I should deliver my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
1Co 13:4 Charity is patient, is kind: charity envieth not, dealeth not perversely, is not puffed up,
1Co 13:5 Is not ambitious, seeketh not her own, is not provoked to anger, thinketh no evil:
1Co 13:6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth with the truth:
1Co 13:7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
1Co 13:8 Charity never falleth away: whether prophecies shall be made void or tongues shall cease or knowledge shall be destroyed.
1Co 13:9 For we know in part: and we prophesy in part.
1Co 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, that which is in part shall be done away.
1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child. But, when I became a man, I put away the things of a child.
1Co 13:12 We see now through a glass in a dark manner: but then face to face. Now I know in part: but then I shall know even as I am known.
1Co 13:13 And now there remain faith, hope, and charity, these three: but the greatest of these is charity.
The true riches of the Catholic church are the Mass and it’s Sacraments and of course it’s great army of witnesses, but I agree commitment can make it seem expensive. Remember Ananias and Sophira for the earth is the Lord’s and all it contains, but who has authority over man? Those to whom lawful authority has been given. Is it natural or supernatural?
The Catholic Church is not rich in the sense that it is storing up treasures for itself. Much of it’s wealth is in art, buildings and real estate that it has had for centuries. Not liquidable assets, but wealth accumulated. The Vatican is wealthy in the same way most countries are wealthy. In America we still pay taxes and America is rich and yet many people are poor.
If the Church were to liquidate all of it’s assetts and give the money to the poor, it would drain the Church, and it would go bankrupt. There would still be poor people and no more Catholic Church. This would not help anyone.
However as it functions now the Catholic Church helps many people. Catholic Charities is the number one charity in the world. It helps more people than any other charity.
Additionally, do you know the Catholic Church educates 2.6 million students everyday, at cost to the Church of 10 billion dollars, and a savings on the other hand to the American taxpayer of 18 billion dollars. Catholic education at this time stands head and shoulders above every other form of education that we have in this country. And the cost is approximately 30% less.
Catholic schools graduate 89% of their students.
Those graduates in turn go on to graduate studies at the rate of 92%, and all at a cost to the Catholic Church. To the rest of the Americans it’s free.
It costs Catholics 30% less to educate students compared to the costs that the public education system pays out for education that cannot compare.
The Church has 230 colleges and universities in the United States with an enrollment of 700,000 students.
The Catholic Church has a non profit hospital system of 637 hospitals which account for hospital treatment of 1 out of every 5 people not just Catholics in the United States.
The Catholic Church clothes and feeds and houses 1 of 5 indigents in the United States, no one asks them if you are a Catholic, a Protestant or a Jew; just “come, be fed, here’s a sweater for you and a place to sleep at night” at a cost to the Church of 2.3 billion dollars a year.
The Catholic Church today has 64 million members in the United States and is the largest non-governmental agency in the country. It has 20,000 churches in this country alone. Every year they raise approximately $10 billion to help support these agencies.
This is where the money goes. It is important to raise children to understand the value of giving to God, to helping the poor, to making sacrifices. Read the story in the Bible about the widows mite. It’s not how much you give, but how much your sacrifice. If a rich person gives a dollar to the Church is it the same as a poor person who gives a dollar? No. The sacrifice the poor person made is greater and the grace and blessings received are greater as well. God sees all. He knows of those who have sacrificed and given to help the Church fulfill Christ’s command to “feed my sheep.”
ADDED: To A – you should be a parishioner, why are you not? Being one does not mean you have to give money though, being one only means you have committed yourself to the Christ and the Church. No Catholic Church demands donations from anyone.
Additionally, when you go to the community college they give in county residents a break on tuition, and out of county residents have to pay more. Same goes for the state level institutions. A parishioner gets a break on tuition for their children…they were probably telling you this to help you.
So you would have Catholic clergy going about in rags while you and the rest of those with your mindset enjoy what life offers you, how hypocritical of you.
You seem to leave out the unknown amassed wealth of the 30,000 Protestant denominations here, and also the mega rich T.V Evangelists, while having a one sided rant against the Catholic church.
Are you living like the very first Christians? I doubt it, and neither are millions of Protestants either.
Now if you can give up this spirit of criticism long enough to read the answer that `Misty040` gave then you just might learn something instead of remaining in arrogant ignorance.
By your standards, all churches are wrong–unless they are communitarian cults. Has your church sold all of its real estate, and do you now wander the country barefoot, spreading the gospel and begging for food? This seems unlikely.
Most individual Catholic churches have not accumulated great wealth. As Misty said, the assets of the Church as a whole are ancient and help the Church to be able to do the amazing charity work it does. This is the same as any charitable foundation which maintains funds with which to continue its work.
My daughter does bring home fundraisers every other week or so from her Catholic school. But only one of these fundraisers per year is mandatory. I am sure that if a family explained to the school that they truly could not afford that one mandatory fundraiser, they would be excused.
The truth is that many of the “poor” families you mentioned would pay their cable TV bill before wanting to give to a charity for those who are hungry. Sorry, but it’s true. There is true poverty, but the Church is there to teach people who have even just a little bit more to use it to help others. We struggle and budget just to make ends meet sometimes, but we contribute to the Catholic Church and school, because that is what God wants.
Wow! Good answer , Misty! ! (I do not have enough exclamation points!) Your answer is wonderful! amazing!
May I add that I have been to Catholic churches that are not always fancy! Oh. and … some of the decorated churches that I have been to…. I do not think they can sell the ornamentation for cash (other than to other churches?) can they melt the items down to raw gold?* (if they could do so, wouldn’t those items have been stolen long ago?) I have seen a lot of homeless people , poor people, and desperate people. It is very difficult to find a job lately.
Yes, Maybe it would be a good idea to sell the Catholic church’s riches. But what about the other evangelical churches???! Good grief! some of those churches are very flashy! have you seen this ? have you heard this? My husband will help me find a link when he wakes up. He was the one who showed me some of the ridiculous utterly frivolous things that these evangelical crazy excited way out there new age-y type Christian religious leaders who misappropriate funds for their own wealth! yikes!
why pick on just the Catholics? why not other Christian religions too?
*PS. it’s sorta like my hair…. (crazy, huh?) but follow me with this one… my hair is actually crazy, crazy long…. too long!!!! I want cut it off and donate it to “locks of love” to make wigs for bald children… However… some of my hair has “damaged” purple streaks in it… SO, I worry that any hair that I could potentially donate may not be usable for a wig!! Although, the website says that they can sell hair that is not usable for a wig… that idea does not bring me great relief. I want to donate my long shiny hair for a wig for children! argh! My hair means a lot to me. It is very pretty. There is no way I am going to cut it off merely for cash. I can donate CASH. I make CASH all the time at work. But, HAIR, now, that is far more valuable than gold, isn’t it? It took years and years to grow hair this long! I think, the church has ornamentation , similar to my pretty hair. It is worth more in value by just being pretty than to cash it out. Do you understand what I mean? I would like to show other people my pretty church. Isn’t it impressive? Isn’t it lovely? wonderful? amazing? wouldn’t you like to worship God here in this glory?
My hair is more valuable to me, on my head, looking pretty… (not my intention, just a coincidence , but ) There was even an interesting Bible quote about a woman’s long hair. That strange news story about the polygamy LDS cult whose children were taken away…. (OT: I’m not LDS, but I am a little neurotic and I just do NOT like people touching me or my hair!)
OH! also,remember that often celebrities and rich people are actually given FREE name brand expensive products to model?… to show off. It’s free advertising for promoting Prada, etc. etc. http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2004/sep/13/marketingandpr3
Its amazing that this question keeps popping up every now and then, …….Do you ever mention about the catholic missionary’s…in the remote parts of the world
who are persecuted and still being killed, and the nuns
they live in sparse conditions, they are funded by the Vatican to help the needed……..no you don’t
we can all nit pick’ at any Establishment…you will always find fault. never the good ……sorry but you make me angry
Giving to charity has always been seen as virtuous in any religion.
The fact that the poor give is beautiful. Remember, charity is giving without strings, or without belief of getting something in return. It’s the perfect love and the perfect love is God. When we see the poor giving in true generosity, we are assured that God is there.
Haven’t you heard the parable about the woman who gave two pennies, and a rich man who gave a million dollars? It was the poor woman who gave 100% of what she had (1 penny) while the millionair only gave 50% of his ownnings … so, we see God in the charity of the poor woman who gave everything.
As for the value of the Vatican, Churches, and worldly possessions the RC Church has … well it is art, and art is valued by the religious, and non-religious. I
Ironically, should the RC Church decide to have a massive garage sale, well, the value would drop since it’s us who use the beauty of the talents of Michale Angelo’s artistic prayer. Should a massive “Garage Sale” be declared on this, well, the value would drop since the Vatican doesn’t value it. So, I guess the art’s value represents the “Catholic” (Catholic translates to Universal) love for God; and it was God who gave the talents to create such art.
Did it ever occur to you that the Catholic Church has been decorated largely out of the piety of her members? Should we take down all that we have given to the house of God, leaving His place of worship barren?
It is good to give to the poor, yes; but it is not good to diminish God’s glory. The Church actually is not rich. If you have watched EWTN, they had a program on once about the workers at the Vatican. They get paid the equivalent of $3200 a year, or something like that. And are you also aware that there are such things as Catholic charities? Religious men and women who take vows of poverty? There are plenty of Catholics helping the poor.
The question is, what have you done to help the poor?